Author Topic: Newcastle 2 Sunderland 0 - Sunday 20th April  (Read 10758 times)

Offline Matt

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Newcastle 2 Sunderland 0 - Sunday 20th April
« on: April 20, 2008, 12:47:15 pm »
Well I've seen the Keegan post match interview. He thinks a world class finish from Michael Owen for the first goal. We made hard work of it because we kept giving the ball away.

Roy Keane thought Sunderland gifted Newcastle the game due to giving bad goals away at bad times, other than that not really troubled.

Sunderland certainly had a lot of second half possession but don't have the quality to make anything of all their possession.

Much talk post match of signing up Owen for next year, Owen says they have not spoken yet. Full details on this here:
http://www.trophy4toon.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=152.0

More to follow later.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 11:41:24 pm by trophy4toon »

Offline CraigDoyle

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Re: Newcastle v Sunderland - Sunday 20th April
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2008, 10:24:11 pm »
Today was not a technical masterclass in football and I don't think many people expected it to be. How many derby matches in recent memory have been? Even the 4-1 away from home a few seasons back was a scrappy affair, as was the 3-2 home fixture in the same season. For me, derby day is a tense experience for both sides where the match is played in a very different atmosphere and a weight of expectation is thrust onto the shoulders of the players. Making mistakes can ruin reputations, while excellent performances can create new heroes.

The unchanged formation is a nice show of stability but I still feel there are cracks being papered over and at least two players in the starting eleven can be considered virtual passengers. While he contributed the fantastic cross, for Michael Owen's opener, Geremi actually does very little. From the dead ball situation he is quite simple a dud. He can't beat the first man and hasn't shown any sign of adapting his technique to change that fact. We are getting plenty of corners at the moment and 9/10 don't yield an opportunity for anyone as the ball never gets into the 'danger zone'. Worse, Geremi really doesn't have the legs. He plunders around on the right hand side of midfield and never really gets forward. Habib Beye often has to play the ball into Geremi and continue on by him down the touchline. When Geremi offers support it is always from around 30 yards out as a backwards pass. The only real positive is that he's always available to defend because he rarely ventures forward enough to go missing. It's sort of like Beckham in a way, but without the final ball or set play ability. We desperately need to look at another option before we start getting caught out. Perhaps, in the short term, Milner?

The other man who I feel needs to be highlighted is Mark Viduka. I admit that I like the Aussie and I'm an admirer of his quick feet and ability to link up the play by holding onto the ball and engaging in neat little interchanges with the other strikers. However his mobility and lack of interest is becoming a massive problem. First of all he won't go for an aerial ball. He seems content on backing into the defender and not leaving the ground in the hope that he'll win freekicks. Unfortunately he isn't getting the freekicks and in the process the opposition defender is gifted a free header. I can understand he likes the ball at his feet but even when it arrives there he isn't producing enough. He doesn't offer himself up as an outlet to hold onto the ball and late in the game that is what we need from him. I think a lot of his negative qualities were amplified by the arrival of Carroll who was desperate to get stuck in. Carroll was able to compete in the air, had plenty of pace about him and looked as though he has a decent first touch. I don't know enough about the lad to comment but I'd like to see what he can do in and around the box and how well he can link up with Martins and Owen.

I'm still a little concerned by Butt and Barton as well. Great players without the ball, very committed and brilliant at breaking up the play, but both guys seem to struggle a little to create anything with the ball. Some of the passes they attempt show that they have the vision but often the end product displays a lack of quality to match the foresight. Barton is criminal (no pun intended) for getting caught in possession. He tends to be slower on the ball and can often walk himself into trouble. Several times he tried to scramble the ball away in areas that could have resulted in us being punished. Butt is the opposite. He treats the ball like a hot potato and is desperate to offload it as soon as he can. There are times where I wish he'd take the time to control the ball and then move it on, instead of trying volleyed passes and first time knock ons that cost us possession. It's hard to criticise either player though as they both put in a good shift. I feel my criticism is aimed more at the fact we have two guys doing the same job as well as Geremi who contributes little going forward. We need a little more variety at times and unfortunately looking at our bench it's not something we have available.

Habib Beye was once again superb. He does all the work up and down the right channel and makes some critical challenges. I can't recall us ever having a right back of this sort of quality. I'm enjoying the fact he often manages to get himself so far forward that he ends up in the opposition penalty area, but is always able to get himself back to cover his position. He never looked under threat today and with Geremi playing so deep, between them they did a good job of holding down the right side of the park against attack in the second half. Across the back line it was good in general, although Kenwyne Jone caused a good few problems. Jones is a player I like and he won everything in the air against Faye, who normally dominates aerial battles. The problem Jones has is that he gets little support and a lot of his work is fruitless as his teammates seem unable to read the play. The big lad was unlucky not to find himself on the scoresheet and all credit goes to Stevie Harper in between the sticks for pulling off a save of the highest class. I reckon Jones will be on his way to a bigger club sometime in the next year or so. Perhaps not a big four side but somewhere he'll get more chances and be able to show his quality.

Not sure what was up with Martins today. He had a good chance to put the game to bed in the second half just before he was substituted. When he was pulled off, much to my bemusement as Viduka was still strutting around, he looked as though he was rather upset with Keegan. I think Oba is taking his passion to heart and overreacting a little. I get the impression he loves the club and rightly feels he can make a difference but he has to remember that Keegan and several other players have deep connections with the club and surrounding area as well. He has to learn to play the team game, do his part and accept the decisions being made. Nobody was upset with his performance today and he should take that as the first positive. He should also try to understand what Keegan was thinking at the time. We were under the cosh as Sunderland were starting to play a bit more in our half. Keegan decided to sacrifice a striker and drop back into a 4-4-2 formation with Michael Owen being relieved of any midfield duties. Duff was put in to add a little balance to the midfield, with the idea being that Viduka would make himself available up top to kick the ball out to. If he could hold it then we could slowly work ourselves out from the back and relieve some of the pressure. Unfortuantely it didn't work quite so well as Owen and Duff were both guilty of giving the ball away and Viduka didn't do the job as expected. Keegan seemed to notice this and was right to remove Viduka at that point for a fresher set of legs. I'm surprised Smith didn't appear as he is just the type to go chasing down every long ball, but Carroll came on and did the same. A good tactical move and one that makes a lot of sense from my perspective. Perhaps a show of managerial maturity from Keegan since his last spell here. A real understanding that at 2-0 we are in a comfortable position and there is no need to go for the throat and risk losing everything.

New penalty taker required? No matter how deadly Owen is from open play I just don't get the impression his penalty kicks worry anyone. Martins and Barton have both had a go and looked suspect as well. Geremi seems to botch every set play he touches so I'd not put money on him scoring either. Maybe our new creative midfielder/corner taker that Keegan buys over the summer will take the spot kicks too.

Special mention to Habib Beye and Steven Taylor. Both lads came over to the Strawberry Corner at the end of the match to applaud the fans. Beye took off his shirt and climbed into the crowd to give it to a kid near the front. Taylor took off his, waved it about on the corner flag for a bit and did the same as Beye. It shows a great deal of class on the part of both players and develops a connection between them and the fans.

At the end of the day it's another three points on the board, mathematical safety secured, local bragging rights in the bag and was a fantastic day out. With three games to go perhaps we could continue this little run into the end of season despite all of our final fixtures being rather tough. Any further indication to Ashley would hopefully sway him towards putting up plenty money for Keegan to look into some of the worries I've highlighted over the last few games by strengthening the squad.

This week I've added some 'bonus' material for everyone to get their teeth into.

A couple of random photos I took:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2094983&l=5d7ba&id=37108339

Prematch video from where I sit. Should give everyone a good feel for the atmosphere.
http://www.bebo.com/FlashBox.jsp?FlashBoxId=6435469037&FlashViewType=Personal&MemberId=5089553055

Please excuse the size and quality of the video. It was taken from a 2megapixel camera phone as a last minute idea. If you can't see any of the above, then give me a shout and I'll sort it out. There are also further clips displaying the atmosphere during the game available. If you want to view them, then drop me a line and I'll upload them.

Offline trophy4toon

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Re: Newcastle v Sunderland - Sunday 20th April
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2008, 12:06:52 am »
Confidence in Keegans ability to manage Newcastle continues to grow. Despite inheriting a squad containing serious flaws he has managed to work out a way of playing that gets results. The confidence and passing of the players is unrecognisable since earlier in the season. Some players like Beye, Owen, Martins, Harper, Enrique, are also unrecognisable from before Keegan took over.

If Keegan builds on those 5 for next season with his acquisition of the said 4 or 5 absolute top quality additions one feels Keegan will get a stunning season out of the squad and really challenge for the top 6, which would be a great achievement from where we were when Allardyce was sacked.

Taylor and Faye continue to worry me, steady enough against one of the worst attacks in the Premier League but the Kenwynne Jones header which brought a brilliant save from Harper would have been a bit embarrasing had it gone in as Taylor and Faye failed to pick up either of the Sunderland players in the box.

Playing with all 3 quality strikers making best use of our strengths does mean that Keegan needs to have a fairly solid midfield. A bit over the top maybe but in Geremi, Butt and Barton he has 3 midfielders who all sit quite deep but none of whom can distribute to save their lives. This works when all 3 strikers are on but you really notice the weakness of the squad when Keegan tries to go to 4-4-2 in matches. Duff was used today to achieve that but frankly adds to the problem, he can't disribute effectively either. There are precious few other options left to Keegan on the bench.

Smith is just a 'no hoper' so I was glad to see Carroll at last given the job of replacing Viduka when Viduka becomes almost totally stationary, Carroll looked promising and definately warrants a bit more time on the pitch to check him out for next season. With the other sub being defensive cover in Edgar it really shows how limited Keegans options are to change the game from the bench. Also how well Keegan has done to get the recent results from this disfunctional squad.

Something I think Arsenal could learn from is that if you have a proven goalscorer in your team, whilst you might have to carry him at times he will score vital goals to win you games like this. Great first goal from Owen, yet another from his head and what a brilliant header it was. Owen is beginning to look a real leader of this Newcastle team and much of the post match talk was about signing him up on a new contract. Lets hope that happens.

A combination of some players going off the boil a bit and also the opposition working out how best to counteract our new 4-3-3 formation has led to 2 rather labouring performances from Keegans 4-3-3 formation in the last 2 matches.

Fully agree with Craig though, a win is a win, a derby win at that and we need to keep the momentum going and win our last 3 matches to persuade both Ashley to invest in the squad for next season and any players we want to sign to believe that Keegan will take Newcastle into the top 6.

If he gets his 5 new players, I'm beginning to believe he will.         

Offline Julia Taylor

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Re: Newcastle v Sunderland - Sunday 20th April
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2008, 09:52:21 am »
first of all, best of luck to all those with bad heads this morning!   ;)

lets just say that i am delighted witht he win over the scum and the bragging rights it holds for the toon. the atmosphere was electric and we the fans must bring this back to every single game because i am certain that i actually scared the players...on both teams, noone surely has witnessed that before.

on the match..hmm! great start and i think that owens header was a great goal, maybe not world class mr KK but great! i still feel that owen is too deep too often and this can cause problems. i have the re-run on tv now before i go home, and have seen in 42 minutes, a number of examples. first minute he was in the LB position almost when mcshane took him out. i like his work ethic, and know he is not playing his traditional striiker role, but on the occasions he is in our half, we did not have a decent outlet. the ball gets played through midfield, a midfield with no pace and very little creativity so they end up holding onto it and passing sideways and back to harper. viduka was shocking, weak, bored, nothing stuck and he was back to his moaning old self. this put added pressure onto owen and martins, who both dropped back deep, who had to try and take the game to the makems themselves.

i feel we have a decent defensive midfield. butt was immense yesterday and deserves the plaudits. barton tried and applied himself well in an unfamiliar position. we had these debates week in and out with SA. when barton was dragged to the wing, he clearly struggled, little pace and therefore couldnt get a decent cross in. when he is in the centre though, we see his brain working, sort of speak, cos we see the pass he is trying...just the execution needs working on! and one more thing on the midfield...no one runs past the strikers. now is this because we have 3 or is it because they cant get there. i think summer is important to get someone in who can do that.

enrique played his best game i feel. solid defending and had edwards in his pocket. geremi...same old i am afraid. rubbish. had plenty of space but di hardly anything with it.

great show and was nice to see owen taylor and beye at the end. think it would have been nice for the whole lot of them to have celebrated at the end witht he fans.

NOTE TO MORONS: THE BOTHER AT THE END WAS NOT BIG NOR CLEVER AS I HAVE A MASSIVELY BRUISED AND SWOLLEN ANKLE NOW.

Offline trophy4toon

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Re: Newcastle v Sunderland - Sunday 20th April
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2008, 11:32:15 pm »
Julia,
hope your ankle is feeling better today.

what was the bother at the end then, haven't seen any crowd trouble myself  ???  ???

Offline CraigDoyle

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Re: Newcastle 2 Sunderland 0 - Sunday 20th April
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 06:03:25 am »
I didn't see anything much around the stadium because I left very quickly after the final whistle to catch an earlier train back home. On the way down to the station a group of twenty or so Mags sprinted by in the direction of Central Station. They stopped in an open area just up from Clayton Street Chip Shop at the top end of Pink Lane. I couldn't see what was going on, but it looked like they were gathering for a brawl. A contact on the train later said that there were a good number of boys hanging about just along from Central Station, not far from the police line. Not sure if anything came of that situation or not.

Other reports suggest the usual pushing and shoving at the NW corner end outside the ground after the game. Not heard anything confirmed yet though.

Offline Julia Taylor

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Re: Newcastle 2 Sunderland 0 - Sunday 20th April
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2008, 10:52:15 am »
i'm in sjh stand level 4, i dint leave early but not too far bahind the final whistle. got so far down, outside the makems exit turnstiles and the line of coppers just barricaded us. it came to a standstill and the TA chanted let them out let them out! after about 5 minutes i asked the coppers to just let me skip through cos i could see what was going to happen and didnt want to be involved....and had a nice botle of wine waiting in the gate for me! they wouldnt let me through but they let the makems out! suddenly everyone just charged towards them and the police all charged back at us!

it all inthe derby game but it is still stupid! think they ended up fighting on the rails at the central station too. makems fault of course!

ankle better and head stopped hurting at about 6pm last night!     ;D

Offline trophy4toon

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Re: Newcastle 2 Sunderland 0 - Sunday 20th April
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 10:12:27 pm »
hmmm, 11 arrests and fighting around Pink Lane and the Central Station:

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/safc/11-arrests-at-TyneWear-derby.4002786.jp


Offline Gallowgate

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Re: Newcastle 2 Sunderland 0 - Sunday 20th April
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2008, 01:07:46 pm »
I was in the middle of all that trouble. What happened was the Newcastle fans were waiting outside the milburn tunnell waiting for the mackems.. To rub it in more than likely, but the police took it over the top so it was more Newcastle singing anti-sun'lan songs and getting attacked by the police.

It kicked off between Newcastle and Sun'land fans more into the night round the central station. I seen a few scuffles on the metro to Pelaw so all the Metros that go to Mackemland go there. So I did have to zip up my coat although i got a few dirty looks when my ringtone went off(Blaydon races). There was undercover police on the metro's and alot of supervisors so the mackem all mouths were moved on or shot with shite pretty quickly.

It's the worst i've seen the derby(violence wise) since i was born though, Not a great thing but there's nout better than seeing a mackem suffer.
52,000 every week.