Author Topic: Sat 27th April - Newcastle 0 Liverpool 6  (Read 5720 times)

Offline trophy4toon

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Sat 27th April - Newcastle 0 Liverpool 6
« on: April 27, 2013, 10:09:41 am »
Both attacks lacking bite :)

Liverpool a bit toothless up front :)

Not expecting a lot of goals here and you just go into the match wondering how many sitters Cisse will miss today.

I'm getting weary of Pardew and his strange tactics and mis use of players. If Ben Arfa is 100% fit then he should be building a set up around him and making effective use of our offensive players like Sissoko and Gouffran and leaving Shola on the sofa at home.

Both teams need to win this, particularly with Liverpool looking to overtake Everton and take their Europa League place (heaven knows why they would want to be in that competition)

Lets hope for a good game, live on ESPN at 5:30pm for those that don't have a ticket.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 08:20:20 pm by trophy4toon »

Offline CraigDoyle

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle v Liverpool
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2013, 10:28:05 am »
I am starting to see Cisse as like an upgrade on Obafemi Martins. He seems capable of scoring when he seems to only have a sniff at goal but when the ball is there to put away the pressure gets to him and he blows the chance.

I'm afraid I can see the same deployment coming from Pardew as I believe he is of the mindset that trying to put a square peg in a round hole will eventually work if you stick at it long enough.

Elliot
Debuchy Taylor Yanga-Mbiwa Haidara
Cabaye Tiote Gutierrez
Sissoko Cisse Gouffran

However this for me is rubbish and ends up with a bizarre formation that sees Sissoko isolated out on the wing in a position where we are not utilising his physical strength. Similarly this setup has shown that none of the three midfield players can get forward. Simply put, it needs to change. The problem is that the change would probably involve removing Gutierrez but he is a Pardew 'blue chip' player as his work rate means he makes a good defensive option and Pardew likes to play for a point.

Personally I'd try something more like this.

Elliot
Debuchy Taylor Yanga-Mbiwa Haidara
Sissoko Tiote
Ben Arfa Cabaye Gouffran
Cisse

Here we put Sissoko back into the centre of midfield with Tiote where he should be able to use his strength more to take control of the game. I'm thinking Yaya Toure here which is what I first though after the Chelsea match where Sissoko dominated. The big man drives the ball forward well and I'd be instructing him to get the ball down and take the play forward against Liverpool's average central midfield. We don't have any problems defensively with Tiote sitting in there and Cabaye able to drop in when required.

I'm also freeing up Cabaye to go further down the pitch. He passes the ball brilliantly and I think we can combined that with the movement of Ben Arfa and Gouffran as well as the more direct option to Cisse to create more chances. I'm risking losing Gutierrez from a defensive stand point because I don't think he gives us anything when we have the ball. Normally he just wants to play a 5 yard pass and stand around the half way line which to me is like playing a man down.

At no point in the game would I be compelled to bring on Shola Ameobi. The ball bounces off him, he doesn't move to make spaces and again is like playing with a man less.

Offline Crico

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle v Liverpool
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2013, 12:47:20 pm »
That's exactly the team and line up I would go for, Craig. My only hesitation would be with Tiote because his ball retention at the moment is pretty awful. Anita is a much quieter player but I think a combination of him and Sissoko could work.

I would even consider just swapping Gutierrez and Sissoko. The latter isn't a player that should be waiting to have the ball played up to him. He should be driving onto it from central positions and protecting the back 4 when the opposition have the ball. Maybe if Gutierrez is forced further forward we'll see him as an attacking force again like a few weeks ago.

I wouldn't compare Cisse to Martins just yet. For a quick player Obafemi rarely attacked the 6 yard box and just didn't have a brain in terms of where to run. Frequently he didn't get the chances because his running was wrong and he wasn't putting himself in the right positions. Cisse is a threat in every game. Fluffing one on ones isn't something he did too much last season or in Germany. I think he has just felt the weight of our crappy season.

Offline Crico

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle v Liverpool
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2013, 04:44:44 pm »
Jeepers. Nasty looking results going into this game. Incredibly, with 38 points and 4 games to go I think Norwich could still be pulled into it and we certainly can. A point today will keep us on the edge of our seats and a loss would be almost disastrous.

Offline Crico

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle v Liverpool
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2013, 04:47:31 pm »
McThug on the score sheet for Wigan. Not that he should be playing mind.

Offline trophy4toon

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle v Liverpool
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2013, 04:55:11 pm »
Exactly as predicted Craig, except even more defensive, Perch on for Gouffran.

Blimey, could you get a more negative approach, we're playing for a 0-0 here .

Offline Crico

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle v Liverpool
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2013, 05:17:38 pm »
What a difference a last minute Wigan own goal makes. Suddenly the threshold is 5 points for us and the lads walk out with a weight off their shoulders. Stoke, Southampton now all but safe. Had Wigan won, the whole bottom half would be looking over their shoulder.

Offline Crico

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle v Liverpool
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2013, 05:22:51 pm »
Blimey. When did Pardew lose the ability to pick a team, 1 through 11? This is where Roeder came unstuck. When the injuries finally subsided he left the wrong people on the bench. Then you get the "don't know what you're doing chants" which spread through the team and then its curtains. Pick the best players, man!

Offline Crico

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle v Liverpool
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2013, 06:58:16 pm »
Pardew more or less admits he got it wrong by bringing on the two who should have started. But it is too little too late. We've been cautious and nervy, Liverpool have taken the game to us and Coutinho has made us look worryingly average in the middle of the park. We aren't going to get the best out of Cabaye if he doesn't have forward runners like Gouffran and Ben Arfa on the pitch to begin with. Without them, his only option is the ball from behind to Cisse. Liverpool cut it out every time.

Really fricking worrying. 3 points out of the window and a trip to West Ham who have been making life hard for the top 4 in recent weeks. Get it sorted AP.

Offline trophy4toon

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle 0 Liverpool 6
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2013, 08:21:10 pm »
Heaviest home defeat since 1925.

We have now conceded more goals than any other team in the Premier League

Offline Slam Dunc

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle 0 Liverpool 6
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2013, 09:28:40 pm »
Not good!!!

Offline CraigDoyle

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle 0 Liverpool 6
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2013, 11:24:29 pm »
So I was again proven right with the team selection. A horribly negative choice of team in what appeared to be a 4-5-1 formation with at least three defensive midfielders.

The biggest issue I have is that with Tiote and Perch in the middle you have nothing. We know Tiote has been a shadow of the player he was last season but when you throw Perch in alongside him then you have nobody able to run the midfield. Perch simply plays the ball backwards at every opportunity while Tiote just runs himself into trouble. The whole thing is typical of Alan Pardew though. He sets up so negatively that he asked Liverpool to come and attack us. We are playing at home in a game where we need to take three points so why offer the opposition an incentive? Surely anyone picking the team would put something out there that asks questions of whether Liverpool can stop us from scoring?

I'd criticise Tiote further but then he is not helped by the third defensive midfielder, Jonas Gutierrez. The Argentine has always frustrated me because he came to the club as a winger but is the only winger I've ever seen in my 27 years that would rather pick up the ball with two men to beat than get himself in an advanced position where he can simply run and cross the ball into the box. I'm wondering if it is now psychological in that his crossing is so bad, he'd rather lose the ball taking on two men than be exposed time and time again for his failed deliveries. At the moment he almost refuses to cross the half way line. It's pitiful to watch.

Again Sissoko is deployed out wide on the right. What fucking good is that?! The guy arrives from Chelsea and looks like a carbon copy of Yaya Toure. He's the type of player you would put bang smack in the middle of the field and build the team around. He has the physicality to win the ball, dominate the aerial battle and the skill to take the ball forward into the opposition half and bring his teammates into the game. So Pardew deploys him out on the right... This guy hasn't kicked the ball since his first couple of games here and effectively has been ruined.

Now is also the time to highlight that Steven Taylor is not capable of leading the back four. He spends more time point and shouting than he does doing. A great leader leads by example which is something Taylor does not. The loss of Coloccini has been damaging. In fact there are more rumours going around that he isn't actually injured and that the reason he asked to leave earlier in the season is in fact down to Pardew's tactics. There has been talk of a major bust up between the two with Coloccini walking out as a result.

The only glimmer of hope we saw on the pitch came in the ten minutes after half time where Ben Arfa and Gouffran injected some energy and movement into our attacking play. The former getting caught on the ball costing us the third goal didn't help but he did show that he can lift a game just by being on the pitch. You have to ask why we didn't start with him. Why persist on playing Sissoko out wide on the right when you can have Ben Arfa instead?

Right now, I can't see any other option than relieving Pardew of command in the summer. Statistically Newcastle are the Premiership's long ball team. I'm not surprised given what I'm watching but it just doesn't make sense given the personnel we have. We don't have that big man up front and pumping the ball to Sissoko, who would much rather have it at his feet, is just sheer stupidity.

Offline trophy4toon

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle 0 Liverpool 6
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2013, 11:31:16 pm »
Who knows what is going on in the dressing room today but the problem looks quite clear to me.

We seem to have a scout in Graham Carr who does an exceptional job in bringing in high quality skillful players at bargain prices.

However we have a manager who clearly wants to play the long ball game i.e. lump it up to Shola or equivalent and hope they get a knock on. So Pardew doesn't seem to know how to deploy the players he is being given by Graham Carr.

The players themselves seem to be trying quite hard, even today they came out fighting in the second half and we dominated the game for a period until the third goal went in.

But there's a big problem to address over the summer assuming we don't get relegated.

Mike Ashley has to either get a team that suites the manager and sell a lot of the current players or keep the players and bring in a manager who wants to play football and get the best out of the talented squad Graham Carr has assembled.  

Offline Crico

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle 0 Liverpool 6
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2013, 08:31:04 am »
Well its a result to make you think, isn't it? 9 goals in 2 home games without reply.

I don't really know what has happened with Pardew himself. I go back to the same point last year and the football was great. The West Brom game sticks in the mind in particular, but generally when we shipped Ba out to the left we started playing some nice stuff, Ben Arfa had found a place in Pardew's heart and all was right in the world.

How we've gone from that to this is beyond me. But I remember being at the home game against Liverpool when Allardyce played a flat back 5 and we lost 3-0. Pardew's approach towards hardly stellar opposition was the same. It seems impossible to imagine us having lost as badly if we had had a go at Liverpool from the start.

Martinez is the obvious contrast. He went at Tottenham trying to win the game and only lost 2 points in the last few minutes. We were buried at half time. The difference? Martinez knows this battle and he understands that looking for draws when the teams around you might start winning is counterproductive.

Don't know the ins and outs of the Collo situation but if he has walked out on the basis of tactics or he is feigning his injury to visit his wife back in Argentina he is a muppet and all his previous contributions to the cause are forgotten. What Pardew now has to do is decide which of M'biwa or Taylor to drop in order to accommodate Perch. I never thought I would say that!

But at least Perch has a cool head which is what we need now. Yesterday was the worst central defensive performance in memory since the Bramble and Boumsong days. Mapou has proven he can be a class act at least once since he arrived but looked out of his depth yesterday and now isn't the time to bed him in next to an erratic Taylor.

A lot of people seem to be gambling on the Villa-Wigan game. The problem is that they both have a couple of winnable games in the next two weeks and another morale-destroying defeat at West Ham could put us in a tailspin.


Offline Crico

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Re: Sat 27th April - Newcastle 0 Liverpool 6
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2013, 08:52:11 am »
Finally, Pardew talking about needing more experience on the pitch against West Ham. I'm curious as to where that is going to come from. Or maybe we already know...